Is God Sovereign?
I copied and pasted this recent posting from Phil on reformation21. You can access the blogsite on the right column.
"Rick Phillips recently defended (see previous post) the sovereignty of God over Hurricane Katrina. But others are taking a different view. Just so you know what Rick is up against, consider the following from Tony Campolo, as quoted on (Alliance Council Member) Al Mohler's blogsite. Campolo says:
"Unfortunately, there are a lot of bad answers. One such answer is that somehow all suffering is a part of God's great plan. In the midst of agonies, someone is likely to quote from the Bible, telling us that if we would just be patient, we eventually would see 'all things work together for the good, for those who love God, and are called according to His purpose' (Romans 8:28).""I don't doubt that God can bring good out of tragedies, but the Bible is clear that God is not the author of evil! (James 1:15). Statements like that dishonor God, and are responsible for driving more people away from Christianity than all the arguments that atheistic philosophers could ever muster. When the floods swept into the Gulf Coast, God was the first one who wept."
"Perhaps we would do well to listen to the likes of Rabbi Harold Kushner, who contends that God is not really as powerful as we have claimed. Nowhere in the Hebrew Scriptures does it say that God is omnipotent. Kushner points out that omnipotence is a Greek philosophical concept, but it is not in his Bible. Instead, the Hebrew Bible contends that God is mighty. That means that God is a greater force in the universe than all the other forces combined."
(Phil's response:)
"Time will not permit me to point all of the difficulties here, but let me at least say the following:
1. Romans 8:28 is a wonderful Bible verse -- one of the most comforting in all of Scripture -- and I have long since tired of people (Christians!) criticizing it. Of course it can be used in a trivial or uncaring way, but its truth is fundamental for anyone who wants to understand the ways of God in the world and longs for real hope.
2. What drives people away from Christianity is not biblical truth, but its absence from the minds and hearts and actions of men.
3. Rather than saying that the omnipotence of God is taught nowhere in the Hebrew Scriptures, it would be more accurate to say that it is taught everywhere in the Hebrew Scriptures. While the term "omnipotence" may not appear in the Bible, it is a necessary entailment of all that the Bible says about God.
4. Although it is commonly made, Campolo's argument for limited sovereignty does not really help him here. If God is a greater force in the universe than all the other forces combined, then he could easily have prevented Hurricane Katrina. Therefore, we still have to accept the fact that God has willed for this disaster to happen. For reasons that are not revealed to us but must further the purposes of his glory, he has permitted this great suffering. We may well struggle to understand his ways, but it will not help us to say that he is not really God.
My note: You cannot weigh in at the Reformation 21 site with comments, but you can here. Feel free to use the Comments section.
"Rick Phillips recently defended (see previous post) the sovereignty of God over Hurricane Katrina. But others are taking a different view. Just so you know what Rick is up against, consider the following from Tony Campolo, as quoted on (Alliance Council Member) Al Mohler's blogsite. Campolo says:
"Unfortunately, there are a lot of bad answers. One such answer is that somehow all suffering is a part of God's great plan. In the midst of agonies, someone is likely to quote from the Bible, telling us that if we would just be patient, we eventually would see 'all things work together for the good, for those who love God, and are called according to His purpose' (Romans 8:28).""I don't doubt that God can bring good out of tragedies, but the Bible is clear that God is not the author of evil! (James 1:15). Statements like that dishonor God, and are responsible for driving more people away from Christianity than all the arguments that atheistic philosophers could ever muster. When the floods swept into the Gulf Coast, God was the first one who wept."
"Perhaps we would do well to listen to the likes of Rabbi Harold Kushner, who contends that God is not really as powerful as we have claimed. Nowhere in the Hebrew Scriptures does it say that God is omnipotent. Kushner points out that omnipotence is a Greek philosophical concept, but it is not in his Bible. Instead, the Hebrew Bible contends that God is mighty. That means that God is a greater force in the universe than all the other forces combined."
(Phil's response:)
"Time will not permit me to point all of the difficulties here, but let me at least say the following:
1. Romans 8:28 is a wonderful Bible verse -- one of the most comforting in all of Scripture -- and I have long since tired of people (Christians!) criticizing it. Of course it can be used in a trivial or uncaring way, but its truth is fundamental for anyone who wants to understand the ways of God in the world and longs for real hope.
2. What drives people away from Christianity is not biblical truth, but its absence from the minds and hearts and actions of men.
3. Rather than saying that the omnipotence of God is taught nowhere in the Hebrew Scriptures, it would be more accurate to say that it is taught everywhere in the Hebrew Scriptures. While the term "omnipotence" may not appear in the Bible, it is a necessary entailment of all that the Bible says about God.
4. Although it is commonly made, Campolo's argument for limited sovereignty does not really help him here. If God is a greater force in the universe than all the other forces combined, then he could easily have prevented Hurricane Katrina. Therefore, we still have to accept the fact that God has willed for this disaster to happen. For reasons that are not revealed to us but must further the purposes of his glory, he has permitted this great suffering. We may well struggle to understand his ways, but it will not help us to say that he is not really God.
My note: You cannot weigh in at the Reformation 21 site with comments, but you can here. Feel free to use the Comments section.
posted by M Clark at 9/06/2005 09:11:00 AM
3 Comments:
It is always discouraging when professing Christians try to limit God's sovereignty to explain away difficult circumstances. It reminds me of a line from one of Phil's sermons a while back when he said that people try to "put God in a box" to suit their own views rather than submitting to divine truth.
I believe that watered down views of Christianity like this are a major factor in the decline of many churches in our society, most notably the "mainline" Protestant churches and the Roman Catholic church, though certainly evangelical churches fall prey to this as well.
During disasters of this proportion, we have a unique opportunity not only to share our faith but also to contemplate our own relationship with God, and to look at our own hearts and see if we truly trusting in God’s sovereignty and displaying a heart of compassion by Christ’s example.
Wow, I'm really disappointed with Campolo (again) going the route of denying omnipotence.
I have to say that he does have some point in decrying the simplistic quoting of Romans 8:28 to suffering people. It seems more Stoic than Christian.
Udo Middleman of L'Abri (and a speaker at a City Light retreat of ages past) made that point much better as a calvinist, though. He is willing to challenge the cheerful claim that disasters and sickness and suffering and death are all "God's wonderful plan" for us, but rather that God seens these things as evils and enemies and he fights against them, and his Spirit groans against them.
I was challenged by it, and I think we need to make some space for mystery and less for cut-and-dried.
We could perhaps redeem "God's wonderful plan" language if we recall the plagues on Egypt are some of God's "wonders".
Thanks for the opportunity to comment.
Praise God that his sovereignty outpaces our wisdomn or understanding and in his omnipotence decides what is good, right and just!
We too readily forget that we are merely creatures of the Creator/Omnipotent God that deems all things for good, no matter how they appear in the present! God is good all the time, all the time God is good.
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